Advice Needed

[Jenn]

Hi everyone,

I am in need of some opinions on what I should do with my 13-month old
male llama (Junior). His mother just had a cria a week ago (which is a
story in and of itself...we believe that one of our males -- who is
also Junior's dad -- must have somehow gotten in her pen and
impregnated her only weeks after she had Junior.) Anyway, Junior has
been jumping on his mother for a few months now but it seemed more
playful than anything. Tonight we caught him mounting her, and she was
actually laying down not resisting or anything. Very troubling.

At his age, should we separate him into his own pen? We also have 1
other female (who is not about to be bred by anyone; she acts like she
is done with all of that) and 2 males who we just gelded a month ago
due to aggressive behavior. One still hasn't completely settled down
yet, and I wonder if he will ever. He really was the male who caused
the problems, but we gelded both to simplify things because we weren't
planning on breeding anymore and wanted to not have to continue to
subdivide the yard. Those 2 are still in separate pens, and we may try
integrating them with the other llamas in another week or 2.

From what I've read about gelding males, they shouldn't be gelded
until at least 18 months. We really don't want to geld Junior (at
least not yet!) because he is a beautiful llama with excellent genes.
Both of his parents were show llamas before we bought them. We don't
show, however; our llamas are more for pets/companions than anything.
So we are wondering what is our best option with Junior. We may be
moving soon and were hoping to be able to integrate all the llamas in
one area and not have to section some off. Really we are trying to
simplify our life. We have a 16-month old little boy and I am pregnant
again, so time and energy aren't something I have much of or foresee
having for a while.

I would appreciate any opinions or advice! We really love our llamas
and want the best for them.

Thank you,
Jenn

[Rick]

Post by Jenn
Hi everyone,
I am in need of some opinions on what I should do with my 13-month old
male llama (Junior). His mother just had a cria a week ago (which is a
story in and of itself...we believe that one of our males -- who is
also Junior's dad -- must have somehow gotten in her pen and
impregnated her only weeks after she had Junior.) Anyway, Junior has
been jumping on his mother for a few months now but it seemed more
playful than anything. Tonight we caught him mounting her, and she was
actually laying down not resisting or anything. Very troubling.
At his age, should we separate him into his own pen? We also have 1
other female (who is not about to be bred by anyone; she acts like she
is done with all of that) and 2 males who we just gelded a month ago
due to aggressive behavior. One still hasn't completely settled down
yet, and I wonder if he will ever. He really was the male who caused
the problems, but we gelded both to simplify things because we weren't
planning on breeding anymore and wanted to not have to continue to
subdivide the yard. Those 2 are still in separate pens, and we may try
integrating them with the other llamas in another week or 2.
From what I've read about gelding males, they shouldn't be gelded
until at least 18 months. We really don't want to geld Junior (at
least not yet!) because he is a beautiful llama with excellent genes.
Both of his parents were show llamas before we bought them. We don't
show, however; our llamas are more for pets/companions than anything.
So we are wondering what is our best option with Junior. We may be
moving soon and were hoping to be able to integrate all the llamas in
one area and not have to section some off. Really we are trying to
simplify our life. We have a 16-month old little boy and I am pregnant
again, so time and energy aren't something I have much of or foresee
having for a while.
I would appreciate any opinions or advice! We really love our llamas
and want the best for them.
Thank you,
Jenn

Jenn,

I can understand your concern. We have a couple of young males who
try to muont their mothers as well. From what I have observed, this
is normal behavior for the mother and the male. However, at about 12
months, you should start considering putting him in with other junior
males. Although he "shouldn't" be sexually mature yet. It does
happen from time-to-time.

Gelding males before about 18 months runs the risk of altering their
growth and a bunch of other things because they're not basically done
growing up. It can be done but there are risks associated with the
gelding getting too big or turning into an animal that doesn't respect
your space. However, with careful attention, it can all be taken care
of.

Ideally, seperate the young male into a pen with another buddy until
about 18 months. I would not put him in with any of your adult-stud
males as they would see him as a threat.

Regards,

Rick Boesen
www.FiberArtFest.com
www.QuesoCabezaFarm.com

[Jenn]

Thanks for the advice, Rick.
One question: we now have no more adults studs, since we gelded both
of them last month. Do you think that they would be okay with Junior?
One of them (his father) has always had a pleasant personality and
really never became aggressive unless provoked by the other one. The
other one is our "problem llama" who we are hoping settles down a
little as a result of the gelding.

Thanks again,
Jenn

Post by Jenn
Hi everyone,
I am in need of some opinions on what I should do with my 13-month old
male llama (Junior). His mother just had a cria a week ago (which is a
story in and of itself...we believe that one of our males -- who is
also Junior's dad -- must have somehow gotten in her pen and
impregnated her only weeks after she had Junior.) Anyway, Junior has
been jumping on his mother for a few months now but it seemed more
playful than anything. Tonight we caught him mounting her, and she was
actually laying down not resisting or anything. Very troubling.
At his age, should we separate him into his own pen? We also have 1
other female (who is not about to be bred by anyone; she acts like she
is done with all of that) and 2 males who we just gelded a month ago
due to aggressive behavior. One still hasn't completely settled down
yet, and I wonder if he will ever. He really was the male who caused
the problems, but we gelded both to simplify things because we weren't
planning on breeding anymore and wanted to not have to continue to
subdivide the yard. Those 2 are still in separate pens, and we may try
integrating them with the other llamas in another week or 2.
From what I've read about gelding males, they shouldn't be gelded
until at least 18 months. We really don't want to geld Junior (at
least not yet!) because he is a beautiful llama with excellent genes.
Both of his parents were show llamas before we bought them. We don't
show, however; our llamas are more for pets/companions than anything.
So we are wondering what is our best option with Junior. We may be
moving soon and were hoping to be able to integrate all the llamas in
one area and not have to section some off. Really we are trying to
simplify our life. We have a 16-month old little boy and I am pregnant
again, so time and energy aren't something I have much of or foresee
having for a while.
I would appreciate any opinions or advice! We really love our llamas
and want the best for them.
Thank you,
Jenn

Jenn,
I can understand your concern.  We have a couple of young males who
try to muont their mothers as well.  From what I have observed, this
is normal behavior for the mother and the male.  However, at about 12
months, you should start considering putting him in with other junior
males.  Although he "shouldn't" be sexually mature yet.  It does
happen from time-to-time.
Gelding males before about 18 months runs the risk of altering their
growth and a bunch of other things because they're not basically done
growing up.  It can be done but there are risks associated with the
gelding getting too big or turning into an animal that doesn't respect
your space.  However, with careful attention, it can all be taken care
of.
Ideally, seperate the young male into a pen with another buddy until
about 18 months.  I would not put him in with any of your adult-stud
males as they would see him as a threat.
Regards,
Rick Boesenwww.FiberArtFest.comwww.QuesoCabezaFarm.com

[Rick]

Post by Jenn
Thanks for the advice, Rick.
One question: we now have no more adults studs, since we gelded both
of them last month. Do you think that they would be okay with Junior?
One of them (his father) has always had a pleasant personality and
really never became aggressive unless provoked by the other one. The
other one is our "problem llama" who we are hoping settles down a
little as a result of the gelding.
Thanks again,
Jenn

Post by Jenn
Hi everyone,
I am in need of some opinions on what I should do with my 13-month old
male llama (Junior). His mother just had a cria a week ago (which is a
story in and of itself...we believe that one of our males -- who is
also Junior's dad -- must have somehow gotten in her pen and
impregnated her only weeks after she had Junior.) Anyway, Junior has
been jumping on his mother for a few months now but it seemed more
playful than anything. Tonight we caught him mounting her, and she was
actually laying down not resisting or anything. Very troubling.
At his age, should we separate him into his own pen? We also have 1
other female (who is not about to be bred by anyone; she acts like she
is done with all of that) and 2 males who we just gelded a month ago
due to aggressive behavior. One still hasn't completely settled down
yet, and I wonder if he will ever. He really was the male who caused
the problems, but we gelded both to simplify things because we weren't
planning on breeding anymore and wanted to not have to continue to
subdivide the yard. Those 2 are still in separate pens, and we may try
integrating them with the other llamas in another week or 2.
From what I've read about gelding males, they shouldn't be gelded
until at least 18 months. We really don't want to geld Junior (at
least not yet!) because he is a beautiful llama with excellent genes.
Both of his parents were show llamas before we bought them. We don't
show, however; our llamas are more for pets/companions than anything.
So we are wondering what is our best option with Junior. We may be
moving soon and were hoping to be able to integrate all the llamas in
one area and not have to section some off. Really we are trying to
simplify our life. We have a 16-month old little boy and I am pregnant
again, so time and energy aren't something I have much of or foresee
having for a while.
I would appreciate any opinions or advice! We really love our llamas
and want the best for them.
Thank you,
Jenn

Jenn,
I can understand your concern.  We have a couple of young males who
try to muont their mothers as well.  From what I have observed, this
is normal behavior for the mother and the male.  However, at about 12
months, you should start considering putting him in with other junior
males.  Although he "shouldn't" be sexually mature yet.  It does
happen from time-to-time.
Gelding males before about 18 months runs the risk of altering their
growth and a bunch of other things because they're not basically done
growing up.  It can be done but there are risks associated with the
gelding getting too big or turning into an animal that doesn't respect
your space.  However, with careful attention, it can all be taken care
of.
Ideally, seperate the young male into a pen with another buddy until
about 18 months.  I would not put him in with any of your adult-stud
males as they would see him as a threat.
Regards,
Rick Boesenwww.FiberArtFest.comwww.QuesoCabezaFarm.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Generically speaking, I would not put the 12 month old in with adult
males (gelded or not). However, you seem to be a very attentive owner
and if you think he will not get thumped by the adults, it will be
ultimately your choice.

If they share a fenceline now, you may be fine. They would already
know each other in a manner of speaking. An alnternative would be to
setup a small catchpen and introduce the younger male to the other
geldings via the catch pen. Put the younger male in the middle of the
pasture and in the catch pen alone. Let the older geldings gather
around the pen and monitor their progress. If after a few hours
everyone seems to be cool with the idea, you are probably fine.

My biggest issues have always come from stud males. If you don't have
any stud males, your job will be easier in the long run.

Rick Boesen
Olivet, Michigan
www.FiberArtFest.com
www.QuesoCabezaFarm.com

[Susan Gawarecki]

Hi Jenn,

Females can be rebred almost immediately after having a cria, so Junior
would have been able to smell that she was open, and she would have been
receptive. Llamas don't know incest! He may or may not be able to
consummate a breeding--generally 13 months is too young, but it has been
known to happen. Also with a new cria, you need to be sure he is not
stealing milk from mom.

If you put him in with recently gelded adults, it's possible they might
attack him, especially if they have been fighting each other. It takes
quite some time for testosterone (and sperm) to leave the system. Try
different arrangements with your boys and monitor them closely. You
won't know for sure if they'll get along until you try it, but if they
fight be prepared to break it up. Your best bet might be to construct
one or more pens or stalls in the males' pasture and take turns
confining any who want to fight or who gets beat up. That way everyone
gets some pasture time and some time in stall.

I would keep gelded males away from females for at least 2 months (and
better 3 months). Even so, they will try to breed the females and may
cause false pregnancies or reproductive tract infections.

If you have a male who is aggressive towards people, there are folks who
can help with information on how to modify or manage his behavior. Let
me know if you need more information.

Good luck,
Susan G

Post by Jenn
Hi everyone,
I am in need of some opinions on what I should do with my 13-month old
male llama (Junior). His mother just had a cria a week ago (which is a
story in and of itself...we believe that one of our males -- who is
also Junior's dad -- must have somehow gotten in her pen and
impregnated her only weeks after she had Junior.) Anyway, Junior has
been jumping on his mother for a few months now but it seemed more
playful than anything. Tonight we caught him mounting her, and she was
actually laying down not resisting or anything. Very troubling.
At his age, should we separate him into his own pen? We also have 1
other female (who is not about to be bred by anyone; she acts like she
is done with all of that) and 2 males who we just gelded a month ago
due to aggressive behavior. One still hasn't completely settled down
yet, and I wonder if he will ever. He really was the male who caused
the problems, but we gelded both to simplify things because we weren't
planning on breeding anymore and wanted to not have to continue to
subdivide the yard. Those 2 are still in separate pens, and we may try
integrating them with the other llamas in another week or 2.
From what I've read about gelding males, they shouldn't be gelded
until at least 18 months. We really don't want to geld Junior (at
least not yet!) because he is a beautiful llama with excellent genes.
Both of his parents were show llamas before we bought them. We don't
show, however; our llamas are more for pets/companions than anything.
So we are wondering what is our best option with Junior. We may be
moving soon and were hoping to be able to integrate all the llamas in
one area and not have to section some off. Really we are trying to
simplify our life. We have a 16-month old little boy and I am pregnant
again, so time and energy aren't something I have much of or foresee
having for a while.
I would appreciate any opinions or advice! We really love our llamas
and want the best for them.
Thank you,
Jenn