Cria Assistance

[Don Cluka]

Hello I am new to the group. I used to lurk here to do research on
llamas before I had a farm and everyone here seemed so helpful so I
thought I'd try with my cria issues. I guess first I need to
introduce myself with a little description of our farm. We live in
Central Minnesota have 3 llamas 1 male 1 female and a new cria. We
got the adult llamas last year from an exotic animal auction by
accident, We thought that it would be nice to have at least one cria
from the pair before having the male fixed. We really werent sure
that our female llama was pregnant and had the local vet check her out
about a month ago and he wasnt sure either. Fast forward to last
sunday evening. I was cutting lawn and went to check on the large
animals and low and behold Latifa our female has a little criation by
her side. His ears were down and he looked pretty weak couldnt stand
etc. Long story short... After calling the vet and trying numerous
things to get him to eat we ended up taking him down to the University
of MN Turns out he was a premie and over the course of the last 6 days
they gave him two units of plasma numerous antibiotics and got him
eating. Today we brought him home, and reintroduced him carefully to
the herd, Our pygmy goats have accepted him and so have our pony and
donkey. Latifa his mother doesnt seem to want to hurt him and seems
almost confused by him, she keeps sniffing him but that is about it.
Our Male llama Kuzco, keeps blowing on him with his nose and making
gurgly humming noises that Phantom (the cria) tries to answer. Until
he gets some more strength and agility we are keeping Phantom in a
makeshift nursery in the corner of our barn where everyone can sniff
him but he is protected from being hurt.

Here are my questions.
Are Kuzco's actions agressive or is he just checking out the little
guy? Historically Kuzco has been great with the farm babies even
letting the new pygmy goat climb on him.

Since Latifa is indifferent is there any way to get her to become more
interested in Phantom. I would really like her to at least bond with
him a little bit and let him hang out with her to learn llama ways if
nothing else. Obviously if we could get her to let him nurse that
would be best but it isnt looking good at this point.

We talked with the camelid vet at the U of Mn a little about BMS and
the thing she told us to remember is to treat him like a llama. Very
businesslike when bottle feeding no hugging or cooing etc. Is there
anything else anyone can suggest to help avoid BMS. I am really
hoping he will bond with his parents.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.

[Susan Gawarecki]

Hi Don,

As you may have discovered, the group is a little slow. But welcome to
you, and I'll try to answer your questions.

It's a shame that mama hasn't bonded. Normally if the cria has to be
hospitalized, the mama should go with it. She may no longer be
producing milk, but there is no harm in restraining her, rubbing some
milk on her teats, and seeing if the baby will try to nurse. Tickle his
anal area as he does, as that stimulates the sucking instinct. If you
milk your goats, you might also see if he'll suckle one of them on a
milking stand--won't hurt to try.

Your male is probably not aggressive, but it's not good practice to keep
an intact male with a female and cria. He'll try to rebreed the female
(probably has already). Normally the mama would hum at the baby as part
of the bonding process and the baby would respond.

As far as bottle-feeding goes, here are some tips based on personal
experience:

Generally llama babies don't "take" a bottle, they often need to be
force fed. Yours should need bottle feeding several times a day, just a
few ounces at at time. Increase this as he can take more. I use cows
milk heated to body temp (about 100 deg F) with a touch of sugar (llama
milk is sweeter) plus a bit of baby cereal (Gerbers oats) mixed in to up
the protein--cut a good sized hole in the nipple. You can also add
liquid baby vitamins. Especially in warm weather you need to keep it
hydrated as they don't really know how to drink from a bucket. Separate
from the milk, give it Pedialyte to prevent dehydration.

The best way to bottle feed a baby is to force it to kush (sweep the
hind legs forward), kneel over it or sit in a chair over it facing
forward, and support the head while tilting it upward. Squirt the milk
into the side of the mouth. You may get lucky and have the baby start
to suck, but you may just have to force feed and deal with dribbling.
Weigh daily to ensure it continues to gain weight. For solid food,
offer grower pellets (or regular feed mixed with Calf Manna) and
alfalfa. Once it is eating solid food, you should set up a creep feeder
for the baby to go into so it can eat at will. This might be difficult
with pygmy goats in the pen.

To avoid BMS, enforce a personal space of about 18 inches. You can
approach and touch him, but he is not allowed to do so with you. Flick
his nose with your finger or tap it with a fly swatter. Especially
don't allow pulling on clothing or getting in your face. It will be the
most difficult part of the entire process for you, because they are so
dang cute! Don't neglect to do the important desensitization, though.
This is the best time to teach him to allow his feet to be handled and
to introduce a halter and a few leading lessons. If you have to tie
him, however, a dog collar is safer until he is larger.

You should also find another llama breeder in your area to help mentor
you through the process. There are a lot of pitfalls with an at-risk
baby that are easier to avoid than to remedy.

You can also read about another experience at
http://www.pearsonpond.com/NewBornCare.html - Tracy Pearson will take
your call if you have more questions.

Good luck and stay in touch. I'll try to check back, or you can e-mail
me directly at ***@yahoo.com with more questions.

Susan Gawarecki

Post by Don Cluka
Hello I am new to the group. I used to lurk here to do research on
llamas before I had a farm and everyone here seemed so helpful so I
thought I'd try with my cria issues. I guess first I need to
introduce myself with a little description of our farm. We live in
Central Minnesota have 3 llamas 1 male 1 female and a new cria. We
got the adult llamas last year from an exotic animal auction by
accident, We thought that it would be nice to have at least one cria
from the pair before having the male fixed. We really werent sure
that our female llama was pregnant and had the local vet check her out
about a month ago and he wasnt sure either. Fast forward to last
sunday evening. I was cutting lawn and went to check on the large
animals and low and behold Latifa our female has a little criation by
her side. His ears were down and he looked pretty weak couldnt stand
etc. Long story short... After calling the vet and trying numerous
things to get him to eat we ended up taking him down to the University
of MN Turns out he was a premie and over the course of the last 6 days
they gave him two units of plasma numerous antibiotics and got him
eating. Today we brought him home, and reintroduced him carefully to
the herd, Our pygmy goats have accepted him and so have our pony and
donkey. Latifa his mother doesnt seem to want to hurt him and seems
almost confused by him, she keeps sniffing him but that is about it.
Our Male llama Kuzco, keeps blowing on him with his nose and making
gurgly humming noises that Phantom (the cria) tries to answer. Until
he gets some more strength and agility we are keeping Phantom in a
makeshift nursery in the corner of our barn where everyone can sniff
him but he is protected from being hurt.
Here are my questions.
Are Kuzco's actions agressive or is he just checking out the little
guy? Historically Kuzco has been great with the farm babies even
letting the new pygmy goat climb on him.
Since Latifa is indifferent is there any way to get her to become more
interested in Phantom. I would really like her to at least bond with
him a little bit and let him hang out with her to learn llama ways if
nothing else. Obviously if we could get her to let him nurse that
would be best but it isnt looking good at this point.
We talked with the camelid vet at the U of Mn a little about BMS and
the thing she told us to remember is to treat him like a llama. Very
businesslike when bottle feeding no hugging or cooing etc. Is there
anything else anyone can suggest to help avoid BMS. I am really
hoping he will bond with his parents.
Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.

[Don Cluka]

Thanks for the advice
Little phantom is bottle feeding really well actually. We feed him
pasturized goat milk about 5 times a day. The vet at the U gave us a
formula based upon his weight to figure out how much to feed him. The
other animals in the herd tolerate him but noone seems to want to
"hang around" with him. He keeps trying to nurse Seven, our donkey,
who happens to be a male and Seven really doesnt care for it. He has
sniffed Latifa, his mom, down by her teats and she kind just nudges
him away nicely. We will try to our best to use the 18 inch rule, I
really want him to think he is a llama and not a human. I will check
out the website that you recommended and see what I can find. I will
keep you all informed, thanks again for the help.
Don

[Randy]

Howdy Don.
I'm a little slow on the group these days.

How's things going by now ?

Randy

Post by Don Cluka
Thanks for the advice
Little phantom is bottle feeding really well actually.  We feed him
pasturized goat milk about 5 times a day.  The vet at the U gave us a
formula based upon his weight to figure out how much to feed him.  The
other animals in the herd tolerate him but noone seems to want to
"hang around" with him.  He keeps trying to nurse Seven, our donkey,
who happens to be a male and Seven really doesnt care for it.  He has
sniffed Latifa, his mom, down by her teats and she kind just nudges
him away nicely.  We will try to our best to use the 18 inch rule, I
really want him to think he is a llama and not a human.  I will check
out the website that you recommended and see what I can find. I will
keep you all informed, thanks again for the help.
Don

[Don Cluka]

Sorry it took me so long to update what was going on with our little
cria. In the last week his mother has taken him back and is now
feeding him and what looks like teaching him llama stuff. We went
from feeding him 5 times a day to the mom feeding him completely.
Also he is not as clingy as he used to be and he hangs with our other
two llamas instead of at the gate waiting for us to come back to feed
him. His weight is up to about 26 lbs and he is very active.

Don

[Susan Gawarecki]

Don,

That is wonderful news! I'm so pleased to hear that the mother has
bonded with her baby. It will be a benefit to both, as well as freeing
you from quite a time-consuming chore (been there, done that).

Regards,
Susan G

Post by Don Cluka
Sorry it took me so long to update what was going on with our little
cria. In the last week his mother has taken him back and is now
feeding him and what looks like teaching him llama stuff. We went
from feeding him 5 times a day to the mom feeding him completely.
Also he is not as clingy as he used to be and he hangs with our other
two llamas instead of at the gate waiting for us to come back to feed
him. His weight is up to about 26 lbs and he is very active.
Don