Discussion:
OT William Bagwell, I'm looking for a Linux discussion group
(too old to reply)
George
2010-08-26 19:49:50 UTC
Permalink
William,
I hope you're still monitoring this group. I'm looking for a project
and thought that I might try Linux. I know NOTHING at this point. The
computer repairman (hint as to why this question comes up) told me that
it is extremely stable but that is about all that he could tell me. Is
it strictly the domain of technicians or is it practical for somebody
who does nothing much beyond web surfing? Can you recommend a good
place to learn about Linux and it's various flavors? Is it practical
for someone who has never dabbled in electronics to consider building a
computer?
Thanx
George
William Bagwell
2010-08-26 23:47:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
William,
I hope you're still monitoring this group. I'm looking for a project
and thought that I might try Linux. I know NOTHING at this point. The
computer repairman (hint as to why this question comes up) told me that
it is extremely stable but that is about all that he could tell me. Is
it strictly the domain of technicians or is it practical for somebody
who does nothing much beyond web surfing? Can you recommend a good
place to learn about Linux and it's various flavors?
Stable, immune to all 'Winborn' virus and assorted malware. Has very little
malware of its own and virtually none of this aimed at casual home users. The
fact you mention only needing basic stuff like web surfing is a big plus. Linux
is for Grandpas (or maws) and geeks. In between is where trouble lies since
Windows power users almost all ways find at least one sticking point that sours
them on Linux.

Happily almost all distros will dual boot with Windows just fine. Many will
even find it during the install and offer to help set up a dual boot. The
opposite as you might imagine is not true... Back when I dual booted (with Win
98) I never had any problem with them sharing a hard drive. Still probably
*much* safer if they live on separate drives in case you need to have the
Windows install worked on.

If you have broad band? Look for a 'live CD' version of a few flavors to try
first. Almost all distros have one that will run from a CD (or DVD) so you do
not need to install until you decide. They will all be very S L O W from the CD
drive so please don't let that put you off.

I'm partial to Mandriva which I have stuck with for over eight years. Nice
blend of newbie friendly administrative tools with a classic RPM (Red Hat)
based distro.

The few I would recommend you try first are Ubuntu despite the fact I
personally do not care for it. Ubuntu has a huge following and you are much
more likely to find someone in real life who uses it and can help you.

PC Linux OS is also a good choice as it is a derivative of Mandriva and (I
believe) the *only* distro other than Mandriva which has inherited their
wonderful GUI based admin tools. If Mandriva ever dies PCLinux OS is likely
where I will go...

Might even consider giving SUSE a try since it has the second best GUI tools.

Stay away from the Red Hat - Fedora - Cent OS camp *unless* you aspire to work
as a Linux admin professionally. Then use them exclusively.
Post by George
Is it practical
for someone who has never dabbled in electronics to consider building a
computer?
Yes. How much do you enjoy doing research on what components to buy? If a lot,
go for it! If very little, buy a "white box" or "bare bones" pre built system.
(Avoiding proprietary stuff like Dell etc.) And in three or four years when you
notice it getting old and slow, buy a mother board, CPU and RAM combo upgrade.
Install this in your old case (keeping power supply, CD drives etc) and tell
every one you built it. Which you did! Sans the home work:)
--
William
William Bagwell
2010-08-27 00:24:51 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 19:47:32 -0400, William Bagwell
Post by William Bagwell
If you have broad band? Look for a 'live CD' version of a few flavors to try
first. Almost all distros have one that will run from a CD (or DVD) so you do
not need to install until you decide.
Oh, since you still use Windows make sure you burn the distros you download as
a bootable ".iso" file. Linux based burning tools seem to do this
automatically, however at one time this was a big problem for people using
Windows based burning tools. They would end up with lots of coasters until they
got the first one...
George
2010-08-27 10:05:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Bagwell
Happily almost all distros will dual boot with Windows just fine.
Maybe I should have mentioned that I am currently using a ~5 year old
iMac G5 with OSX Leopard. It was bulletproof until this week. I
installed a patch last Friday which did all kinds of weird things. It
has been in the shop twice this week and the repairman still isn't sure
what happened. It's running now but I don't dare use "sleep" mode or
the whole thing locks up on me. After being carefree and fully
satisfied for five years I'm forced to consider the mortality of my
Apple.:(

Will anything dual boot on a Mac?
Post by William Bagwell
PC Linux OS is also a good choice as it is a derivative of Mandriva and (I
believe) the *only* distro other than Mandriva which has inherited their
wonderful GUI based admin tools. If Mandriva ever dies PCLinux OS is likely
where I will go...
Might even consider giving SUSE a try since it has the second best GUI tools.
My first computer predated Windows and I do not have fond memories of
text based interface! Is GUI the exception and not the norm in the
various Linux systems?

When I switched from a PC to a Mac there was really very little to
learn, not much different than changing from a Ford to a Chevy; is a
Linux OS significantly different from the others?

Thanks
George
William Bagwell
2010-08-28 00:05:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
snips
Apologies for insulting you like that!
Post by George
Will anything dual boot on a Mac?
I believe they can now since the switch to Intel based hardware. Do not know
any details, think it is still a bit more complicated than Windows / Linux. (So
is Linux / Linux since they play more nicely with Windows than with each other)
Post by George
My first computer predated Windows and I do not have fond memories of
text based interface! Is GUI the exception and not the norm in the
various Linux systems?
Sadly yes:-( What is even worse is how hard it is to get a GUI answer when a
command line solution exists. The good news is that Linux is only the operating
system not the windows manager and most WMs have a GUI administrative panel for
their part of the overall system.

Analogy time if you are a bit confused. Back in the Windows 3.1 days DOS was
still the operating system and Windows was just the window manager that ran on
DOS. Today Windows is both but these two parts are still separate in Linux.
There are two heavy weight contenders (KDE and GNOME) either of which will
approximate your Mac (or Windows) interface. Numerous light weight window
managers exist, which are mostly used by people running very old hardware. Or
administrators who almost never leave the command line and want a tiny GUI for
those rare occasions.
Post by George
When I switched from a PC to a Mac there was really very little to
learn, not much different than changing from a Ford to a Chevy; is a
Linux OS significantly different from the others?
Not that much. As long as you don't mind driving a 1923 T bucket with a jet
engine;-)

Actually, not much as long as you do not expect to install (or find a free
equivalent of) your obscure business software in Linux.
--
William
George
2010-09-07 17:04:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Bagwell
Not that much. As long as you don't mind driving a 1923 T bucket with a jet
engine;-)
Actually, not much as long as you do not expect to install (or find a free
equivalent of) your obscure business software in Linux.
Hi William,
I had to replace the power supply in my Mac so I went ahead and
quadrupled the RAM too. It's back to being a pretty good machine.
Meanwhile I found a local charity that recycles old tech equipment and,
for a donation of time, will teach people how to build their own
computers. http://www.freegeek.org/volunteer/build/
Their boxes are all built with recycled pieces and set up with Linux.
In addition to building the computer there are Linux classes available
to volunteers. It seems like a neat way to keep some stuff out of the
landfill and put it into hands that can use it. Unfortunately I have
not seen how their machines are spec'd out. I suppose if I learn how to
build one I can spec it anyway I want to. If I can figure out where to
come up with the extra hours I may go that route.

George
George
2010-09-08 09:59:56 UTC
Permalink
Hi William
Post by William Bagwell
Not that much. As long as you don't mind driving a 1923 T bucket with a jet
engine;-)
Actually, not much as long as you do not expect to install (or find a free
equivalent of) your obscure business software in Linux.
Things got worse before they got better. When I brought my Mac home it
was working okay, just okay, so I decided to splurge and quadrupled the
RAM. When I rebooted after swapping the RAM the problems that put it in
the shop all returned. This time I took it to the Apple shop where they
replaced the power supply and this really seems to have done the
trick---knock wood.
In researching Linux I found a local charity that recycles and rebuilds
computers and donates the rebuilt (reincarnated?) machines to
not-for-profits, etc. http://www.freegeek.org/about/overview/ They
will teach a person (me!)to build a computer from the parts that they
salvage from donated equipment. Each computer is loaded with Ubuntu.
There are a couple of different ways that people who volunteer their
time can earn a computer, classes, tech support and a generous discount
at the thrift store. I spoke to them today and it looks like a fun way
to learn how to build my own computer, learn about Linux, and help
others who may not otherwise be able to have a computer. I will start
by taking classes that will teach me which parts are usable and how to
install them. When I figure out what I am doing I will build five
computers that will go to either donation, the thrift store or to
volunteers. The sixth computer that I build will be mine. When I have
fulfilled that part of the program other more advanced classes and
volunteer work become available---Macs, laptops, optical drives, etc.
I'm looking forward to this.

George
William Bagwell
2010-09-09 23:46:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
In researching Linux I found a local charity that recycles and rebuilds
computers and donates the rebuilt (reincarnated?) machines to
not-for-profits, etc. http://www.freegeek.org/about/overview/ They
will teach a person (me!)to build a computer from the parts that they
salvage from donated equipment. Each computer is loaded with Ubuntu.
There are a couple of different ways that people who volunteer their
time can earn a computer, classes, tech support and a generous discount
at the thrift store. I spoke to them today and it looks like a fun way
to learn how to build my own computer, learn about Linux, and help
others who may not otherwise be able to have a computer. I will start
by taking classes that will teach me which parts are usable and how to
install them. When I figure out what I am doing I will build five
computers that will go to either donation, the thrift store or to
volunteers. The sixth computer that I build will be mine. When I have
fulfilled that part of the program other more advanced classes and
volunteer work become available---Macs, laptops, optical drives, etc.
I'm looking forward to this.
Thanks for the link! There has been some recent talk of starting a computer
'recycling' center in the Atlanta area (closet one is 90 miles away in Athens
GA) I am going to suggest they try some of these cool ideas that reward the
volunteers a bit.

Oh, love their tag line! "Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of
the third millennium"
--
William
George
2010-09-14 17:53:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Bagwell
Thanks for the link! There has been some recent talk of starting a computer
'recycling' center in the Atlanta area (closet one is 90 miles away in Athens
GA) I am going to suggest they try some of these cool ideas that reward the
volunteers a bit.
Oh, love their tag line! "Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of
the third millennium"
More of the nuts and bolts of the thing here
http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Main_Page

George
George
2011-03-11 23:14:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
Post by William Bagwell
Thanks for the link! There has been some recent talk of starting a computer
'recycling' center in the Atlanta area (closet one is 90 miles away in Athens
GA) I am going to suggest they try some of these cool ideas that reward the
volunteers a bit.
Oh, love their tag line! "Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of
the third millennium"
More of the nuts and bolts of the thing here
http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Main_Page
George
Hi William,
after our last communication I went ahead and took the plunge with Free
Geek. Due to a very heavy work schedule I am only able to volunteer
on Saturday afternoons and that really slowed my initial progress. I
was only able to get in about once a month and that seemed like it was
just too long between sessions for this poor old geezer to retain
anything. I took about four months to clear the initial hump and that
really opened up the schedule for me. It only took a few weeks to clear
the next phase and, as of yesterday, I am now ready to start actually
building a computer.

The resources here are terrific. In the initial phase, System
Evaluation, I took apart around a dozen machines separating the trash
from the treasures. If I had relied on training myself at home I would
never have had the opportunity to tear down that many (any?) systems.
Every box had something unique to teach me. This step was completely
flow chart driven and there seemed to be no end to the flow charts. To
prove that I had mastered this step I had to train a newbie to navigate
the flow charts. That went much better than I had anticipated and was a
real morale booster.

The phase that I completed yesterday included Quality Checking six
machines that had been built by other volunteers. (Special
circumstances gave me a chance to pick up a weekday shift.) Even with
just the Saturday afternoon schedule I've been able to get in often
enough to really retain what I learn from one session to the next.

Now, I have to build five computers for Free Geek and then number six
will be for myself. After that I will decide how much further I wish to
go with this. So far it has been terrific fun!

George

P.S. This may be a sign of the times. On 1/18 I lost my Usenet. I
phoned my local ISP to determine if the problem was on my end or if they
had curtailed service. The secretary that I spoke to had no idea what I
was even talking about but transferred me to one of their computer
techs. He had no clue either but assured me that his boss would be in
later and would call me. The call never came.

Next, I emailed customer service. That email was never answered.

Finally, on 3/2, more than a month after losing Usenet I stopped in at
the local phone/ISP office. The secretary that I spoke to paged the
computer service supervisor---finally I got to speak to somebody who had
heard of Usenet. He told me that he was not aware of any problems but
he would check into it and call me with any news.

When I got home from work there was a message on my phone telling me
that service had accidentally been cut off but everything should now be
back to normal. It is.

I don't know if I was the only one affected by this problem or even if I
was the only one to complain. Anyway, I (and maybe every customer) went
without service for more than a month due to an undetected mistake.
Maybe this is why Usenet is dying.
William Bagwell
2011-03-27 23:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
Hi William,
after our last communication I went ahead and took the plunge with Free
Geek. Due to a very heavy work schedule I am only able to volunteer
on Saturday afternoons and that really slowed my initial progress. I
was only able to get in about once a month and that seemed like it was
just too long between sessions for this poor old geezer to retain
anything. I took about four months to clear the initial hump and that
really opened up the schedule for me. It only took a few weeks to clear
the next phase and, as of yesterday, I am now ready to start actually
building a computer.
The resources here are terrific. In the initial phase, System
Evaluation, I took apart around a dozen machines separating the trash
from the treasures. If I had relied on training myself at home I would
never have had the opportunity to tear down that many (any?) systems.
Every box had something unique to teach me. This step was completely
flow chart driven and there seemed to be no end to the flow charts. To
prove that I had mastered this step I had to train a newbie to navigate
the flow charts. That went much better than I had anticipated and was a
real morale booster.
The phase that I completed yesterday included Quality Checking six
machines that had been built by other volunteers. (Special
circumstances gave me a chance to pick up a weekday shift.) Even with
just the Saturday afternoon schedule I've been able to get in often
enough to really retain what I learn from one session to the next.
Now, I have to build five computers for Free Geek and then number six
will be for myself. After that I will decide how much further I wish to
go with this. So far it has been terrific fun!
Apologies for not replying sooner. I'm becoming a bit of a slacker on Usenet
myself:-(

Have fond memories of my "Install and maintenance" class almost eight years
ago. After we completed our assigned tasks with the schools old junk, we
started brining our own old junk boxes in. I had a recently been given a couple
of old servers. Managed to get both working, though not at the same time due to
'borrowing parts. Put some flavor of Linux on one, and IIRC Windows 2000 server
on the other. Have never even booted either since that class... Should have
sold them while they were still worth something. (Five grandish new, in theory
still worth a few hundred bucks or so in 2003, and totally worthless today)

One of the other students brought in an even then ancient 486 in a full tower
case he had found beside the dumpster at his apartments. When he opened it up
is was apparent it had been in a flood since there was water damage and a nice
coating of dried *mud* in the bottom couple of inches. Naturally it was
immediately nicknamed the mud monster. Booted after a bit of work but every one
lost interest in it quickly since it was so slow.
Post by George
George
P.S. This may be a sign of the times. On 1/18 I lost my Usenet. I
phoned my local ISP to determine if the problem was on my end or if they
had curtailed service. The secretary that I spoke to had no idea what I
was even talking about but transferred me to one of their computer
techs. He had no clue either but assured me that his boss would be in
later and would call me. The call never came.
Next, I emailed customer service. That email was never answered.
Finally, on 3/2, more than a month after losing Usenet I stopped in at
the local phone/ISP office. The secretary that I spoke to paged the
computer service supervisor---finally I got to speak to somebody who had
heard of Usenet. He told me that he was not aware of any problems but
he would check into it and call me with any news.
When I got home from work there was a message on my phone telling me
that service had accidentally been cut off but everything should now be
back to normal. It is.
I don't know if I was the only one affected by this problem or even if I
was the only one to complain. Anyway, I (and maybe every customer) went
without service for more than a month due to an undetected mistake.
Maybe this is why Usenet is dying.
Not only were some ISP's dropping Usenet like flies a few years ago, but almost
one new has been coming to (text) Usenet in recent years. Not to mention all
the folks who got fed up with spamers and those 'other' lovable nuts who I
shall not mention. Even with all of this there are still a *few* thriving
groups left. Some of the craft groups are still hanging in and the newsgroup
for the TV show Lost was absolutely kicking up until the final episode aired.

Sad because Usenet has features that no other style of forum will ever have.
--
William
Susan Gawarecki
2011-04-01 23:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Are there any llama owners left on this list?

Susan G
Post by William Bagwell
Post by George
Hi William,
after our last communication I went ahead and took the plunge with Free
Geek. Due to a very heavy work schedule I am only able to volunteer
on Saturday afternoons and that really slowed my initial progress. I
was only able to get in about once a month and that seemed like it was
just too long between sessions for this poor old geezer to retain
anything. I took about four months to clear the initial hump and that
really opened up the schedule for me. It only took a few weeks to clear
the next phase and, as of yesterday, I am now ready to start actually
building a computer.
The resources here are terrific. In the initial phase, System
Evaluation, I took apart around a dozen machines separating the trash
from the treasures. If I had relied on training myself at home I would
never have had the opportunity to tear down that many (any?) systems.
Every box had something unique to teach me. This step was completely
flow chart driven and there seemed to be no end to the flow charts. To
prove that I had mastered this step I had to train a newbie to navigate
the flow charts. That went much better than I had anticipated and was a
real morale booster.
The phase that I completed yesterday included Quality Checking six
machines that had been built by other volunteers. (Special
circumstances gave me a chance to pick up a weekday shift.) Even with
just the Saturday afternoon schedule I've been able to get in often
enough to really retain what I learn from one session to the next.
Now, I have to build five computers for Free Geek and then number six
will be for myself. After that I will decide how much further I wish to
go with this. So far it has been terrific fun!
Apologies for not replying sooner. I'm becoming a bit of a slacker on Usenet
myself:-(
Have fond memories of my "Install and maintenance" class almost eight years
ago. After we completed our assigned tasks with the schools old junk, we
started brining our own old junk boxes in. I had a recently been given a couple
of old servers. Managed to get both working, though not at the same time due to
'borrowing parts. Put some flavor of Linux on one, and IIRC Windows 2000 server
on the other. Have never even booted either since that class... Should have
sold them while they were still worth something. (Five grandish new, in theory
still worth a few hundred bucks or so in 2003, and totally worthless today)
One of the other students brought in an even then ancient 486 in a full tower
case he had found beside the dumpster at his apartments. When he opened it up
is was apparent it had been in a flood since there was water damage and a nice
coating of dried *mud* in the bottom couple of inches. Naturally it was
immediately nicknamed the mud monster. Booted after a bit of work but every one
lost interest in it quickly since it was so slow.
Post by George
George
P.S. This may be a sign of the times. On 1/18 I lost my Usenet. I
phoned my local ISP to determine if the problem was on my end or if they
had curtailed service. The secretary that I spoke to had no idea what I
was even talking about but transferred me to one of their computer
techs. He had no clue either but assured me that his boss would be in
later and would call me. The call never came.
Next, I emailed customer service. That email was never answered.
Finally, on 3/2, more than a month after losing Usenet I stopped in at
the local phone/ISP office. The secretary that I spoke to paged the
computer service supervisor---finally I got to speak to somebody who had
heard of Usenet. He told me that he was not aware of any problems but
he would check into it and call me with any news.
When I got home from work there was a message on my phone telling me
that service had accidentally been cut off but everything should now be
back to normal. It is.
I don't know if I was the only one affected by this problem or even if I
was the only one to complain. Anyway, I (and maybe every customer) went
without service for more than a month due to an undetected mistake.
Maybe this is why Usenet is dying.
Not only were some ISP's dropping Usenet like flies a few years ago, but almost
one new has been coming to (text) Usenet in recent years. Not to mention all
the folks who got fed up with spamers and those 'other' lovable nuts who I
shall not mention. Even with all of this there are still a *few* thriving
groups left. Some of the craft groups are still hanging in and the newsgroup
for the TV show Lost was absolutely kicking up until the final episode aired.
Sad because Usenet has features that no other style of forum will ever have.
George
2011-04-02 05:45:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan Gawarecki
Are there any llama owners left on this list?
Susan G
Hi Susan,
I think that Randy may still have one or two. I got rid of my last one
awhile back when it became obvious that neither of us would pack again.
I haven't seen anybody else check in for quite some time.

Will the last one to leave kindly turn off the lights?

George
Randy
2011-04-03 12:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan Gawarecki
Are there any llama owners left on this list?
Susan G
Yep, we still have 1.

Randy
enigma
2011-04-04 13:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Susan Gawarecki
Are there any llama owners left on this list?
i'm down to one. we have a new neighbor on the back corner of my
property who apparently believes dogs should run free now that they
moved to the country... first they killed my Speckled Sussex rooster.
they were told to tie the dogs. couple weeks later the dogs ran the
animals in the pasture. Junifer was 20. she died of anaphylacyic shock
from the exertion. the dogs are dead next time i see them.
my son wants me to breed Sally, but i don't think so. both the llamas
i had out of her died from a neurological issue at about 8 years old.
not menengial worm, but a muscle wasting type of thing. i suspect way
too much inbreeding around here.
lee
Susan Gawarecki
2011-04-04 21:30:38 UTC
Permalink
Lee,

I'm so sorry to hear about Junifer (and the rooster). Dogs can be such a
problem, second only to their owners.

There are lots of nice rescue llamas out there needing homes after the
Montana Large Animal Sanctuary closure and the Meadow Woods Farm
bankruptcy sale. If anyone wants to rebuild their herd, let me know
where you are, and I can direct you to the closest organization with
llamas for adoption.

Susan G
Post by enigma
Post by Susan Gawarecki
Are there any llama owners left on this list?
i'm down to one. we have a new neighbor on the back corner of my
property who apparently believes dogs should run free now that they
moved to the country... first they killed my Speckled Sussex rooster.
they were told to tie the dogs. couple weeks later the dogs ran the
animals in the pasture. Junifer was 20. she died of anaphylacyic shock
from the exertion. the dogs are dead next time i see them.
my son wants me to breed Sally, but i don't think so. both the llamas
i had out of her died from a neurological issue at about 8 years old.
not menengial worm, but a muscle wasting type of thing. i suspect way
too much inbreeding around here.
lee
Randy
2011-04-05 23:30:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by enigma
Post by Susan Gawarecki
Are there any llama owners left on this list?
i'm down to one. we have a new neighbor on the back corner of my
property who apparently believes dogs should run free now that they
moved to the country... first they killed my Speckled Sussex rooster.
they were told to tie the dogs. couple weeks later the dogs ran the
animals in the pasture. Junifer was 20. she died of anaphylacyic shock
from the exertion. the dogs are dead next time i see them.
 my son wants me to breed Sally, but i don't think so. both the llamas
i had out of her died from a neurological issue at about 8 years old.
not menengial worm, but a muscle wasting type of thing. i suspect way
too much inbreeding around here.
lee
Sorry to hear about Junifer.

I'm a big believer in spaying and nuetering.
And after that, do the same thing to the dogs.

Randy
Bruce Atchison - author
2011-04-20 19:45:58 UTC
Permalink
I'm glad there are still a few llama owners left on this group. Even though
I don't have any, I enjoy hearing about them.

I sure wish people would keep their dogs tied up or in a yard. They do so
much damage. It's even worse when their owners have attitudes. I live in a
hamlet but we still get boobs from the city moving here who figure they
don't have to restrain their dogs. That's why I cary a Dazer when I walk to
the post office.

Sincerely,

Bruce Atchison - author of When a Man Loves a Rabbit and Deliverance from
Jericho.

www.bruceatchison.blogspot.com
www.inscribe.org/BruceAtchison

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