Grain in the cold or not?

[David V.]

I was told by someone that when the llama digests grain it
creates heat in their stomach(s) .

I was told by someone that that's silly.

What's the consensus here?

[Susan Gawarecki]

I've always been told that the heat of digestion is higher for hay than
for grain. That said, I'm not sure that means that eating hay keeps a
llama warmer. Grain has more calories per lb than hay. But do be
careful--the bacteria in the rumen aren't designed to digest grains, and
if you feed too much it can lead to acidosis, thiamine deficiency, and
other problems. Corn tends to be more problematic than oats.

One strategy for increasing calories is to top-dress a pelleted feed
with corn oil. You can also add alfalfa to their diet for higher protein.

Susan G

I was told by someone that when the llama digests grain it creates heat
in their stomach(s) .
I was told by someone that that's silly.
What's the consensus here?

[David V.]

Post by Susan Gawarecki
I've always been told that the heat of digestion is higher for
hay than for grain. That said, I'm not sure that means that
eating hay keeps a llama warmer. Grain has more calories per
lb than hay. But do be careful--the bacteria in the rumen
aren't designed to digest grains, and if you feed too much it
can lead to acidosis, thiamine deficiency, and other problems.
Corn tends to be more problematic than oats.

I get this "calf feeder" mix from a local mill. It's corn and
barley with dry molasses. I feed it only when it is snowing or I
feel like giving them a treat. They love it. I also bring that
stuff on hikes, but for long hikes I bring a better quality feed,
usually the Mazuri Llama Diet Coarse HF-5Z02.

Post by Susan Gawarecki
One strategy for increasing calories is to top-dress a
pelleted feed with corn oil. You can also add alfalfa to
their diet for higher protein.

I have some alfalfa/grass hay set aside for the winter.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by David V.
I was told by someone that when the llama digests grain it
creates heat in their stomach(s) .
I was told by someone that that's silly.
What's the consensus here?
--
Dave
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is
putting on its shoes."
Mark Twain

Hi Dave,
With horses (yeah, not the same, but lots more research and info), you
up the hay in cold weather. I always fed grain with horses, but kept
the protein to %10-%12. I did up the grain for mares and young
stock. Too high a % of protein can cause the body temperature to rise
as the kidneys have to work harder. I have had horses for 40+ years
and that is the way I did it.
With llamas, I do feed my guys a cup of pelleted food a day, with
minerals that complement it and they have all the hay they want (I use
round bales) year round. When I have had young llamas, they pretty
much had free choice pellets (I usually put out 6 cups per llama at a
time) with pasture or hay, but with no ill effects as that was the way
they were raised.
I don't think either species has the temperature of the stomach raised
by grain vs. hay. Aren't your guys older? When I have had a old
llama to care for, I fed him Senior feed that has the roughage
combined with it
Susan R

[David V.]

Hi Dave, With horses (yeah, not the same, but lots more
research and info), you up the hay in cold weather. I always
fed grain with horses, but kept the protein to %10-%12. I
did up the grain for mares and young stock. Too high a % of
protein can cause the body temperature to rise as the kidneys
have to work harder. I have had horses for 40+ years and
that is the way I did it.

Upping the hay seems to be the consensus so far.

With llamas, I do feed my guys a cup of pelleted food a day,
with minerals that complement it and they have all the hay
they want (I use round bales) year round. When I have had
young llamas, they pretty much had free choice pellets (I
usually put out 6 cups per llama at a time) with pasture or
hay, but with no ill effects as that was the way they were
raised.

The ranch where I learned about raising llamas had a "creep
feeder." The crias could pass through a hole in the gate that the
adults could not. In there they found some free choice grains and
hay. It seems they also liked to taunt their mothers from the
other side of the gate.

I don't think either species has the temperature of the
stomach raised by grain vs. hay. Aren't your guys older? When
I have had a old llama to care for, I fed him Senior feed
that has the roughage combined with it

Mine are getting older. 10 to 15 years old now. I have one that
I'd love to fatten up a bit. Lleroy, he's the one with the wry
face and galloping arrhythmia. He's always been skinny and I've
never been able to keep any weight on him. Maybe I'll try the
Senior feed.

I always thought the heating the stomach thing was just another
ranch tale. You know, those tales the old timers tell. Like the
other one I heard; you MUST cut all the wool off of young llamas,
especially when they turn two years old. That way the "growth"
will go into their bones instead of their wool. Don't worry, I
didn't believe that one.

[s***@gmail.com]

Post by David V.

Hi Dave, With horses (yeah, not the same, but lots more
research and info), you up the hay in cold weather.  I always
 fed grain with horses, but kept the protein to %10-%12.  I
did up the grain for mares and young stock.  Too high a % of
protein can cause the body temperature to rise as the kidneys
 have to work harder.  I have had horses for 40+ years and
that is the way I did it.

Upping the hay seems to be the consensus so far.

With llamas, I do feed my guys a cup of pelleted food a day,
with minerals that complement it and they have all the hay
they want (I use round bales) year round.  When I have had
young llamas, they pretty much had free choice pellets (I
usually put out 6 cups per llama at a time) with pasture or
hay, but with no ill effects as that was the way they were
raised.

The ranch where I learned about raising llamas had a "creep
feeder." The crias could pass through a hole in the gate that the
adults could not. In there they found some free choice grains and
hay. It seems they also liked to taunt their mothers from  the
other side of the gate.

I don't think either species has the temperature of the
stomach raised by grain vs. hay.  Aren't your guys older? When
 I have had a old llama to care for, I fed him Senior feed
that has the roughage combined with it

Mine are getting older. 10 to 15 years old now. I have one that
I'd love to fatten up a bit. Lleroy, he's the one with the wry
face and galloping arrhythmia. He's always been skinny and I've
never been able to keep any weight on him. Maybe I'll try the
Senior feed.
I always thought the heating the stomach thing was just another
ranch tale. You know, those tales the old timers tell. Like the
other one I heard; you MUST cut all the wool off of young llamas,
especially when they turn two years old. That way the "growth"
will go into their bones instead of their wool. Don't worry, I
didn't believe that one.
--
Dave
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is
putting on its shoes."
Mark Twain

When you check out senior feed, look at the fat content. The higher
the content, the more calories. The roughage is part of the feed, so
you don't have to feed extra hay (or if they aren't getting enough
from the hay) but you have to factor the # of pounds to feed. It can
even be soaked and fed wet if needed. I took care of an old horse
that we had on Triple Crown (highest fat content I could find) for the
last 4 years of his life. He was at least 16 hands and was huge. He
ate 20# of Senior feed a day. I fed Senor feed to an old ABS llama
whose body score was about a 2. He got 10 cups, twice a day. Gained
weight and got more dangerous.
Susan R

[David V.]

Post by s***@gmail.com
When you check out senior feed, look at the fat content. The
higher the content, the more calories. The roughage is part
of the feed, so you don't have to feed extra hay (or if they
aren't getting enough from the hay) but you have to factor the
# of pounds to feed. It can even be soaked and fed wet if
needed. I took care of an old horse that we had on Triple
Crown (highest fat content I could find) for the last 4 years
of his life. He was at least 16 hands and was huge. He ate
20# of Senior feed a day. I fed Senor feed to an old ABS
llama whose body score was about a 2. He got 10 cups, twice a
day. Gained weight and got more dangerous. Susan R

Lleroy could never get dangerous. He's a sweetheart. The sad part
is that he really loves to pack. He would get excited when he saw
the packs and the trailer. His heart condition retired him early.
Whenever I clean out the loafing shed, usually every couple of
days, I kick everyone out except for Lleroy. He won't go out the
gate and just calmly eats his hay, or grain, in peace. I'll get
some high fat senior feed for him to eat when I clean up.

How did he get so messed up? He's a Professor grandson.

[Susan Gawarecki]

I've had to put one of mine on a senior feed that I soak. Taki has
always been thin and he had problems with choke. For a long time he did
fine when I scattered his feed in a big pan, but recently he began
choking every time he had pellets. Apparently he's developed a
narrowing in his esophagus, possibly due to scarring. I've tried him on
a local senior feed soaked in water, and so far it's working well. This
is an animal that sired a CA baby, so I've often wondered if he has some
sort of congenital malformation that predisposes him to choke.

I'll look for a senior feed with higher fat content when this bag gets
low. He's lost 10 lbs since I've had to take him off pellets (initially
all he got was a chunk of alfalfa at mealtime), and really can't afford
to lose any more.

Susan G

Post by s***@gmail.com
When you check out senior feed, look at the fat content. The higher
the content, the more calories. The roughage is part of the feed, so
you don't have to feed extra hay (or if they aren't getting enough
from the hay) but you have to factor the # of pounds to feed. It can
even be soaked and fed wet if needed. I took care of an old horse
that we had on Triple Crown (highest fat content I could find) for the
last 4 years of his life. He was at least 16 hands and was huge. He
ate 20# of Senior feed a day. I fed Senor feed to an old ABS llama
whose body score was about a 2. He got 10 cups, twice a day. Gained
weight and got more dangerous.
Susan R

[r***@yahoo.com]

We feed the llamas a little bit of sweet mix when it's cold out.
Thats what I was taught to do when we first got llamas and who
am I to argue ?

Randy

Post by David V.
I was told by someone that when the llama digests grain it
creates heat in their stomach(s) .
I was told by someone that that's silly.
What's the consensus here?
--
Dave
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is
putting on its shoes."
Mark Twain

[enigma]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
We feed the llamas a little bit of sweet mix when it's cold
out. Thats what I was taught to do when we first got llamas
and who am I to argue ?

that's what we do as well. i don't do it for "heat", but to be
sure they keep a good fat layer on in the winter, since they
are out in subzero winds (not *my* fault! they have sheds, but
seldom use them). free choice second cut orchard grass hay & a
cup of sweet feed per llama per day.
lee

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by enigma
that's what we do as well. i don't do it for "heat", but to be
sure they keep a good fat layer on in the winter, since they
are out in subzero winds (not *my* fault! they have sheds, but
seldom use them). free choice second cut orchard grass hay & a
cup of sweet feed per llama per day.
lee
--

Thats about the same way we feed ours in the winter.
Or did. We don't have those sub-zero temps in the Ozarks like
we had up in Nebraska.

I need to see about getting hay soon.

Randy

[David V.]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
We feed the llamas a little bit of sweet mix when it's cold
out. Thats what I was taught to do when we first got llamas
and who am I to argue ?

I was taught that too. It doesn't hurt anyone and it's not my
main way of keeping them from freezing.